tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3839131113481621095.post8388119547265694401..comments2023-06-16T07:01:52.541-07:00Comments on The Blog of Dr. T. Michael W. Halcomb: Reading the Bible with the DamnedTMWHhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06807155020816222182noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3839131113481621095.post-85616465421205315032007-11-27T17:00:00.000-08:002007-11-27T17:00:00.000-08:00Interesting topic you raise: Do we need God for sh...Interesting topic you raise: Do we need God for shame???<br><br>I think the answer is no.<br><br>I recall in my Christian college days several years back we had the school's chaplain speak to us in chapel on the issue of integrity (or some such topic). One of the issues he mentioned was that one's integrity is measured in the little compromises. A specific example he mentioned was driving on a private/restricted street. The street connected the campus and made driving around a lot easier. There was a sign posted that said something about "private." It was a bit vague, but most of us interpreted it as meaning that the street was not a public access. But we used it, anyway, of course b/c it was so convenient.<br><br>Our chaplain came down hard on us: Driving on this road is an issue of integrity. It was "wrong" to drive down this road.<br><br>This affected my conscience. I felt bad (shame) for driving on it. Sometimes I drove on it, sometimes I didn't. I felt guilt, though, when driving on it.<br><br>But here's the twist: There was nothing legally wrong with driving down this road! The sign was vague, but this street was (and still is) a public street.<br><br>I felt shame b/c it was imposed upon my by a religious leader within a religious institution. But there was nothing "legally" wrong with it. Was I guilty? Not legally. But I did feel shame.<br><br>This is just one example of perhaps many. The Pharisees kept people in bondage through the norms imposed from their leadership position within their religious institution. <br><br>Shame, then, can be manufactured by society and religious institutions, can it not?Jonathan Erdmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04234688186113838474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3839131113481621095.post-4201994241562892662007-11-27T16:41:00.000-08:002007-11-27T16:41:00.000-08:00Jon,I think you're right on about the relation...Jon,<br><br>I think you're right on about the relationship between guilt and shame. I think many people feel guilty of sin and know they are guilty but still do not really feel ashamed about it. In my preaching I have stated numerous times that one of the cultural aspects of the NT that the Church of today must recover is that of shame. We are much too lax on this whole issue.<br><br>As for recognizing it, one does not need to be Calvinist. I do think, however, that recognizing shame may depend on whether or not one knows God. You don't realize that you need to be ashamed until you stand next to an incredibly holy God who makes you realize it.<br><br>Just some thoughts. Glad to engage with you on this and other topics.T Michael W Halcombhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01119080394574322124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3839131113481621095.post-63059231784462220682007-11-27T15:56:00.000-08:002007-11-27T15:56:00.000-08:00One wonders how persons can be liberated from thei...<i>One wonders how persons can be liberated from their sin without being made aware of their guilt?</i><br><br>This is a good question that you raise. One that I repeatedly circle through my mind these days.<br><br>Most doctrines of depravity (at least as far as I can see) suggest, in a very general sense, that sin affects the entire person. I don't know that one has to be a Calvinist (or even a Christian, for that matter) to recognize that sin and evil permeate our world, cultures, and society. I think we <i>feel</i> it at a very fundamental level. Even for those who ignore it, there are countless examples of everyday depravity and also of extreme depravity. For example, I just today purchased a copy of Life magazine's "The Most Notorious Crimes in American History."<br><br>If one can intuitively recognize evil, then where is the need for <i>guilt</i>? In a natural sense, I wonder if a sense of personal <i>shame</i> for sin is a more natural and appropriate response. For example, Adam and Eve hid. Prior to disobedience they were "naked but felt no shame."<br><br>How does guilt relate to shame? There seems to me to be a correspondence, but I am not sure in what sense. Perhaps shame leads in to guilt. If this is the case, then it would seem as though many conservative preachers and evangelists over the years have got it all backwards when they preach guilt but not shame.Jonathan Erdmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04234688186113838474noreply@blogger.com